Friday, September 17, 2010

This Don't Belong In The Church House!!

Yea! I said it...Performance don't belong in the real  church....To me Mimes performance in churches  are a perfect example of tickling your ears and not giving  a ounce of truth.....This is nothing but  a distraction of what church is really about....What's the purpose for this kinda of entertainment in church.....The Holy Spirit once upon a time long ago was the only interpreter of Scripture....What's going on church?


  1. Let everything that has breath, Praise the Lord!

    Just because one person doesn't recieve the blessing doesn't mean someone else didn't. People said what you are saying about mime ministry, about the dance...they said it about Kirk Franklin and artist like him. If it weren't for the music of Kirk Franklin a lot of these young people would not be in the church today.

    There are a lot of churches that thinks that the black preachers who whoop and holler are unecessary...I see no difference between a mime and a whooping preacher who is overly animated.

    They act out the word. Not everyone is an audio learner...some people need visualization to not only hold their attention but to help them understand better.

    Praise is praise no matter what form it takes.

  2. For the record, I am not a big fan of mime dance performances in the church, and our church happens to have such a ministry, though they only "minister" about once every other month.

    Our church also has a dance ministry for young and older ladies who have that talent. The dance is a cross between ballet ad modern dance, usually to a contemporary gospel tune, and again, we only actually see them about every other month. My girls have been a part of that.

    I think the mime performances in church have grown out of a desire by some to give young people a healthy outlet for their creative expressions of dance and whatnot. It's supposed to be, I believe, an alternative to dancing in and for the world.

    Now we can certainly debate about whether the church should be doing that, but I believe that's the rationale behind it.

    For the record, there are many gospel artists today (a few I've even seen featured on your site, but not many) that I feel sing music that glorifies the flesh and the hand of God more that a worship of the chracter and holiness of God.

    The truth is that throughout the American church, performance of all types has crowded out true worship, from performing preachers to performaing gospel artists to yes, performing mime groups.

    I guess the question becomes:

    Who determines what is a legitimate form of worshipful expression?

    The answer would be "The Scripture", but the Bible doesn't offer any hard and fast guideline for what is or isn't acceptable worship other than whether or not the flesh or the Spirit is its inspiration.

  3. Hello Ann,

    At first I wasn't going to touch this debate, because for the most part, those that have constantly opposed your views on the traditions of "the Old black church way of life", do so with the same arguments that are not bearing fruit.

    Someone has to show me(not tell me)the fruits they are bearing from moving away from the traditions of the old black church. Until they do, I will continue to believe the devil is working overtime, and doing a very good job.

    Specifically the argument that we need to draw more "young people" to the church, so anything goes. Heck, if we wanted to throw caution to the wind, all we have to do is add a large flat screen TV in the church, turn on BET or any reality TV show, and give away free pizzas and chicken wings. That's sure to draw a crowd. And while we are at it, we can add a DJ playing all the lastest hits, and include a few old jams by Babyface.

    And to suggest that certain musical artist has draw our youth to the lord is purely porous thinking.

    And, take for instance this comment.. "Just because one person doesn't recieve the blessing doesn't mean someone else didn't"

    My question is what blessings and whose blessing?!

    Not only that, someone tried to draw an anology between the artist that you post in your sidebar and this subject. First, this (your blog) is not church. So I wonder what was the purpose behind that comparison? It didn't fit this discussion.

    Having said all of that, I Think Terry (above) sort of voiced my opinion. He did a great job of seeking first to understand.

    Personally, every time I see mimes hit the floor (in church), I shake my head and wonder what's it all about. And for the record, they do it in my church but I've never liked it.

  4. Here's what I gather from this post and the comments...

    The "old black church" is silent and still. The only way to recieve the lord is to sit back and listen to a preacher condem the world to hell and then go home...

    I find that the majority of the Christian population commits the very acts they preach against...The bible doesn't have a "sin rating" system. So judging holds just as much hell fire as murder.

    The only thing, according to the bible, that Christians are responsible for is planting the seed. It is up to the individual to find the Lord for themselves, and build their own relationship with god. and if these kids think that miming is apart of the relationship with god, then so be it. Who are we to say that it's wrong?

    When the praises go up the blessings come down, and if this is their praise then let them be blessed. It obviously wasn't YOUR blessing, so it's not Your business as to what and who's blessings...

    Everytime I see a christian finding fault others, instead of loving their brothers, I shake my head and wonder what's it all about...

  5. Please Kera, spare us the slippery slope of rationalizing poor judgement. You've brought no meat to the table. You've peppered us with trite whimsicle idioms.

    "Here's what I gather from this post and the comments...

    The "old black church" is silent and still"

    See, that statement is so laughable and amgigious, all I can suggest to you is that you read your bible... in it's entirety!

    Silent and still???!!

    Are you implying that moving forward with the speed of light with BLINDERS on, iS the way. Or again, are you saying that we should embrace any concept or ideology, and in doing so... do not voice any concerns on it's negative effects?

    Come on Kera, do you see the errs in that kind of thinking?

    "Everytime I see a christian finding fault others, instead of loving their brothers, I shake my head and wonder what's it all about..."

    I'll tell you what it's about. The devil plays in our comfort zone. Consequently, those that view constructive criticism as "fault finding" is doing nothing more than dancing to the devil's music. If we didn't discern right from wrong, we'd be nothing more than lambs for slaughter. Or easy marks for purveyors of any ol kind of religion.

    "The only thing, according to the bible, that Christians are responsible for is planting the seed"

    Again, I would suggest that you read your Bible before making such statements. You've shown that you have no problem speaking your opinion but little of it is from The Word.

  6. This type of ministry has touched many people Sunday after Sunday. I wish people would stop trying to put God in a box and understand different people praise God in different ways.
    "Traditions of the Old Black Church?" What exactly does THAT mean? I can go back to the church I grew up in and they are still singing the same hymns they song 20 years ago,the same Deacon is still praying the same prayer he prayed 20 years ago and judging from the age of the members who are in their 60s and 70s,the growth has stopped. WHY? Because they are trying to hold on to the "traditions of the Old Black Church".
    "You have to wear THIS,and you can't do THAT."
    GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!! It's that type of limiting how people can or can't worship that's keeping people-YOUNGER people from joining church and giving their lives to Christ. Sure,there is no substitute for the WORD but I have NO problem with people who express themselves through this type of ministry!

  7. But Mud, again, look at what you are saying.

    "the growth has stopped. WHY? Because they are trying to hold on to the "traditions of the Old Black Church".
    "You have to wear THIS,and you can't do THAT."

    First, WHAT growth has stopped. Seriously, if you (and others) continue to use ambiguous words to cloud the issue, it tells me that you may not have a direction.

    Really, if you think we should live in a world without rules, standards, laws and dress codes, than this whole debate is a moot issue. OF COURSE there will always be standards, and there will always(unfortunately)be those that try to reshape those standards to their own liking and benifits.

    "I have NO problem with people who express themselves through this type of ministry!"

    That's obvious, consequently, do you have any beliefs, or standards that you would consider outside the line? You do understand why that question has to be asked? See, that's the question that few wish to consider when they use phrases like "if that's how they want to "express themselves". MUD, where is the line?

    And please, don't blame the church for the moral decay that's happening in our world. Your comments seem to suggest such.

    Those same old deacons that you seem to look down on, ARE NOT the ones participating in the downward spiral of decadence. They must have been doing something right!

    That's the side of this debate that NO ONE can dispute. Your "maybe's" "could-be's" and "should-be's" are nothing more than wishes and dreams. Many people can talk the talk(any ol'talk), but when you've lived a little, you'll learn that it's best to rely on proven products (walking the talk). SHOW ME the fruits from your seeds and then we'll be working with something. If not, it will remain a sideshow.

  8. @Kera LaShawn thanks for the comment...I respectfully disagree with you....First,I never had/have a problem with Kirk Franklin music.
    I believe this idea of the church pandering to folks young or old is silly.

    According to the last couple of polls that have been taken.This kinda of pandering to unbelievers don't seem to be, whats the point and purpose? The need to stimulate and excite people constantly is not what the Word is about.

    Christ should be the focus of all our praise and worship....Real Praise and worship should be directed solely to God....It is not meant to entertain the congregation nor is it meant to uplift a individual’s(bless)soul. That's what entertainment do.

    @Terry thanks for the comment...The thing about Christians and the Church is that we’re supposed to back up what we believe and do from the Bible.

    Well, you and I both no this mess has creep into the church and it cannot be Biblical justified/unjustified.... Man brings things into the church under the pretense of holiness, but at the end of the day, it’s nothing but a man-made mess.

    @Carey thanks for the comment...You and I both have mad respect and admiration for the black church....I "PERSONAL" have a problem with the entertaining environment that's moving rapidly through today's church.

    It is a sad day and time when we can blatantly have an hour of praise and worship(entertainment) and 30 minutes of the Word of God....We need to earnestly get back to the Word. I believed what worked back in the day to deliver people; will deliver people today.

  9. @Mod Lumpkin thanks for the comment...I don't agree with it but it's welcome...If you read your Bible you would understand that this kinda of foolishness(entertainment)would have never been accepted in the first century church nor in the church of 20 years ago....The pastors of the old church made sure that the wolves didn't come into the church house...Today's church have invited the wolf in with all this flesh types of entertainment.

    The Bible gives us instruction on how and whats pleasing to God...It never mention entertainment...The church is not for entertainment,but to glorify the one true God Jesus Christ.

    The work of the ministry of the Holy Spirit with do what it was sent to do...Once we set our butts down listen and humble our selves...
    The BIBLE says that the Spirit of truth comes to convict the world of sin, teach the believer, bring back to our remembrance the truth of Gods word, to comfort us and convict us of sin.

    I don't see were miming does any of that....So when people are up performing and entertaining in the church who's getting convicted of sin who's getting saved? Nobody!!so, what is the point of it?
    I tell you what, the Holy Spirit will never operate in a church environment driven by entertainment...You might call it boxing God in I don't...I call it having relevance for a LOVING GOD who don't need to be entertain.

  10. Biblically a in different cultures, the Word has ALWAYS been performed to either heighten the impact of what The Word demonstrates and proclaims.

    People forget, when Deborah (?) and her crew danced before the Lord telling Him of His victory over the armies of Egypt.

    for those who forgot or are not current on the history of the black church before the "euro-ization" of the church when the church was in Africa, a "performance" was a normal occurance it was before The Lord, for the congregation to reflect on the further worship and for praise.

    Poems were read, music was played (with & without music).
    These are not strange ideas they are old & culturally diverse and unique; the body is differentbut fittly joined together.

  11. For those who have a mind set of we don't need to draw the youth into the church; let just the Holy Spirit draw them in.

    Well, since you dwell in the shallow end of what The Word reads and have not begun to study for the test and you are still sucking down the basic milk of your bare upbringing of your christian walk.


    Since we do not sing non-musical, untimed hymnals, and we do not shun an actual building for worship and fellowship, nor shun and disdain the use of cars & electricity, etc.

    We do see the benefit of constructive growth with prayer and with Godly guidance from the Holy Spirit.

    Music can change, traditions can be transformed and updated or just left behind when it served it's purpose.

    But, if you live your life as a christian; with the Joy of the Lord, you keep your emotions guarded
    (not negated; we are not robots dictated by victorian edicts; but we are not unstable children that have unbraidled feelings that unhinge at a moments notice)
    Advise when sent, create peace in chaos, be friendly so you can have friends, "live" above reproach; stay humble, be strong but show your meekness....

    Be different as The Lord made you; this is a draw to people, the youth especially.....

    Just remember how you came to Christ in your youth or in your lowered debased state.

    This will keep you mindful of how to approach the youth and draw them in.

  12. "For those who have a mind set of we don't need to draw the youth into the church; let just the Holy Spirit draw them in, Well, since you dwell in the shallow end of what The Word reads and have not begun to study for the test and you are still sucking down the basic milk of your bare upbringing of your christian walk"

    My dear Kasha, after reading that small comment, who did you think would respect the rest of your words???

    You even opened with an argument that was totally yours, and then preceeded to contradict yourself. WHO said we shouldn't draw "them" to the church??? The means and the methods are at the root of this discussion.

    And AGAIN, I've again smelled the fumes of ambiguity.


    NOw tell me Ms. Kashi, what exactly is not growing? And, at what pace should your "quasi" growth proceed? Can you see how your words are like thin paper? More importantly, whatever it is a person wishes to grow, there better be a purpose and direction or they will find themselves listening to all sorts of "ministers" and "prophets".

    Maybe I should ask YOU, what's your source of reference? I mean, you brought African culture into the Mix. Is the Bible your source of reference? If not, I can better understanding your "preaching". I don't condon your form of preaching or agree with it, but I understand your point of view. I really do.

  13. Is God limited to tradition? Can God do anything and reveal Himself in whatever way that He will? Even in a burning bush?
    It's a fleshly thing to debate who's right and who's wrong concerning how the Holy Spirit works!
    I've seen some mime "performances" and was deeply touched by my God's love! And I've seen some other mime "performances" that were totally dead!! It was purely for entertainment, and it was bad at that!

    I think it has to do with the heart of the person performing. Is there a heart for God, or a heart for grabbing attention?

    Ann, I don't believe that mime interprets in place of the Holy Spirit, but that it physically "sings" a song, gives a praise, shows adoration to God, as a good praise song! If the person is annoited in that craft. There are many who have jumped on the bandwagon without any power, just as there are singers with no annointing. You probably saw a mime with no annointing or heart for God.
    I wonder if maybe those kinds of performances should be done outside the sanctuary to respect those who feel bad about it though.

  14. Ann, I see what you mean. These two mimes groups are very distracting! They seem to be trying to interpret every word of the songs. Way too much!
    The whole idea with the mime is to be hidden behind the mask, to be subtle, yet expressive. Not to do so many many movements--it then becomes like a dance contest! I can see them on American Idol or something!! I could detect that spirit of competition in the first seconds! Uggh!

  15. @Anna thanks for the comment...Saturday night my church hosted a program in which a mime performer from another church danced...The young man had a painted white face with black lips...He dance to Juanita Bynum "Behind The Veil" the extended version... The younger childern was acting shocked and scared while the performer was moving.

  16. i have been miming for close to 10 yrs. and first let me say it is NOT a performance it is a ministry. when i mime i minister to people. no i am not saying that every mime does it for this reason there are some who do it as a form of entertainment but there are others who look at it as a form of ministry. it is praise dancing in a theatrical form so YES it is exxagersted and YES it will portray what is going on in the song. it should. thats the whole point. do your research and david danced before the lord...naked so was that for entertainment as well? "for my peopele parrish for lack of knowlege. get the facts before you judge. if all you can find going wrong in the church is mime dancing honey you need to use your spiriual eyes because your natural ones are off focus. be blessed

  17. This is Horrible... Praying for your Mindset